[Solved] Numbering text keeps shifting

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[Solved] Numbering text keeps shifting

Postby Steve5 » Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:15 pm

I'm trying to number separate text, each number after "1." indented .25" from each other, so I have tabs set .25" apart( "2." would be .25" from the margin, "3." would be .5" from the left margin and so on).

When I typed in 1. (text) and hit enter, all of it shifted over to the right about half an inch by itself. But I want it on the left margin. So I went into Tools - Auto Correct - Options and unchecked the box for Apply Numbering. That worked, the 1. (text) stayed on the left margin after I hit enter. So after hitting enter, down to the second line, I hit the tab, typed in "2. (text)" and hit enter, but that moves the "2. (text)" back to the left margin. It's not staying at that .25" tab (from the left margin). And when I tab twice and type "3. (text)" and hit enter, all of that shifts back to the left margin too. Why doesn't the text I type in stay at their tabs? How can I get them to stay at their tabs?

After typing "2. (text)", I could move down to the next line with the arrows, and that seems to hold the "2. (text)" at that .25" tab. But I shouldn't have to. I just want to hit enter, and have it stay there.

And no, the Numbering icon is not highlighted so it's off.

Just realized if I hit Shift and Enter, the indented text stays where it is. But the one time I forget to do that, or hit the enter key by habit, all that text that shifts back to the left margin! So Shift/Enter is not an option.
Last edited by Hagar Delest on Wed May 26, 2021 7:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: tagged solved.
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Re: Numbering text keeps shifting

Postby Bill » Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:15 pm

Turn off the AutoCorrect option that deletes the tabs and spaces at the start of paragraphs.
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Re: Numbering text keeps shifting

Postby Steve5 » Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:29 pm

Thanks, that worked. But at the expensive of preferring Autocorrect to be on. What the heck does the text shifting on its own have to do with autocorrect? And besides, who's the genius that programed this that would allow the shifting of text - as the default - after you put it where you wanted? If I wanted the text on the margin, I would have put it there.

But there's another issue. I have seven tabs set. But a few lines down, three of them disappear. I keep setting them over and over and over again, but they're not there. Why aren't they there?
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Re: Numbering text keeps shifting

Postby Bill » Sat May 01, 2021 2:27 am

Steve5 wrote:Thanks, that worked. But at the expensive of preferring Autocorrect to be on. What the heck does the text shifting on its own have to do with autocorrect? And besides, who's the genius that programed this that would allow the shifting of text - as the default - after you put it where you wanted? If I wanted the text on the margin, I would have put it there.

Writer is a word processor, not a typewriter. Paragraphs in word processors are normally indented by changing the indent setting for the paragraph, not by inserting tabs at the start of the paragraph. If you want to use Writer like a typewriter, then you may have to turn off some AutoCorrect options.

Steve5 wrote:But there's another issue. I have seven tabs set. But a few lines down, three of them disappear. I keep setting them over and over and over again, but they're not there. Why aren't they there?

Upload a sample document. You may have changed the paragraph style to one that doesn't have the tab stops, but that's just a guess.
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Re: Numbering text keeps shifting

Postby Steve5 » Sun May 02, 2021 2:07 am

I'm not using the tab to indent a paragraph, but it shouldn't matter. A tab is a tab, whether it's a typewriter or word processor. I set a tab, or tabs, and they shouldn't disappear and the text shouldn't move by itself. Is that asking too much?

Word processing is supposed to make writing text and documents a lot easier than using a typewriter. And yet, here I am, stuck, with all these issues, and all I want to do is write text at various tabs .25" apart. Speaks volumes, numbering and tabbing should not be this complicated and frustrating.

That said, I tried to duplicate the issue on new document but can't. On the original, sometimes the three tabs disappear 3" down the document, and other times somewhere else. So I can't tell which line is the cause of it.

Actually, I have an eighth tab. That one disappears first, by itself, up near the top. And then then lower down the three other tabs disappear.

And I never changed the Style. I never do. The Styles and Formatting are all set to "default." I also tried opening the document in Libre Office and the tabs are disappearing there too.

I started this document by clearing all the default tabs (and don't get me started on them) by going to Tools - Options - Writer - General and entering a tab stop at 9". So I changed it to .5 and the tabs still disappeared. So that 9" "tab" is not the issue. But I can change it .25". That works. But what if I wanted a couple of the tabs, say .5" apart instead of .25"? Good grief.
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Re: Numbering text keeps shifting

Postby Bill » Sun May 02, 2021 10:56 am

Steve5 wrote:I'm not using the tab to indent a paragraph...

You hit Enter. That starts a new paragraph. You hit Tab. That inserts space between the page margin and the paragraph text. That is indenting.
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Re: Numbering text keeps shifting

Postby Hagar Delest » Sun May 02, 2021 11:37 am

As requested by Bill, a sample file showing the issue would be better (see How to attach a document here).
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Re: Numbering text keeps shifting

Postby RoryOF » Sun May 02, 2021 11:46 am

Steve5 wrote:And I never changed the Style. I never do. The Styles and Formatting are all set to "default."


You are using OpenOffice in a way it was not designed for. You should choose a tool better suited to your expectations, or you should adapt your method of working to fit the design criteria of Open-/Libre-Office. Many have found this document helpful:

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Re: Numbering text keeps shifting

Postby JeJe » Sun May 02, 2021 12:06 pm

Are you setting the tab stops for a range of paragraphs instead of for the paragraph style? If so then they will appear to disappear when you move from the range of paragraphs where you set those tab stops to the paragraphs where they haven't been set.

If you modify the tabs stops for the paragraph style they will apply to all paragraphs in that style.
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Re: Numbering text keeps shifting

Postby Steve5 » Thu May 06, 2021 2:42 pm

Bill wrote:
Steve5 wrote:I'm not using the tab to indent a paragraph...

You hit Enter. That starts a new paragraph. You hit Tab. That inserts space between the page margin and the paragraph text. That is indenting.


I know. I meant that I'm not using the tab to indent a paragraph of written sentences. I'm tabbing to indent data, line by line, and I want some data at .25" from the left margin, some .5", some .75" and so on.

Hagar Delest wrote:As requested by Bill, a sample file showing the issue would be better (see How to attach a document here).


I can upload it, but the tabs aren't disappearing when I try and duplicate it.

RoryOF wrote:
Steve5 wrote:And I never changed the Style. I never do. The Styles and Formatting are all set to "default."


You are using OpenOffice in a way it was not designed for. You should choose a tool better suited to your expectations, or you should adapt your method of working to fit the design criteria of Open-/Libre-Office. Many have found this document helpful:

Writer for students (several languages)


Open Office isn't "designed" for tabs to work the way they should? You set a tab, you click tab and the cursor should go there. How can it not be "designed" to work that way? It would be like designing a car and sometimes the steering wheel doesn't turn and then saying I should find a car with one that turns all the time.

All I wanted to do was to tab. That's all. I shouldn't have to read a set of instructions to create tabs. Imagine a car coming with a set of instructions on how to turn the steering wheel.

JeJe wrote:Are you setting the tab stops for a range of paragraphs instead of for the paragraph style? If so then they will appear to disappear when you move from the range of paragraphs where you set those tab stops to the paragraphs where they haven't been set.

If you modify the tabs stops for the paragraph style they will apply to all paragraphs in that style.


Ok. This goes to show how complicated this is because I can't even figure out what you're asking. And that proves that this is way more complicated then it has to be. And besides, why are just some of the tabs disappearing?

And I didn't "modify" them. At least I don't think so. After they disappeared, I kept adding them again. And again. And again.

Also, they're not "appearing" to disappear. They do disappear, I see them vanish. And when I try to go to those tabs, the cursor doesn't move.

I know it sounds crazy, but to create the tabs, I went into Format - Paragraphs and in the "position" field, I added tabs (.25, .5, .75 etc), assuming the cursor would go to each tab each time I hit the tab key (gee, what the heck could I possibly be thinking?). If that's not the way to add tabs, then why allow the user to do that, only to have some of them disappear? But that's exactly how you should create tabs because it couldn't be more simple.

I do have another document with one tab in the middle of the page (with all the default tabs removed) and created it that same way. And that tab never disappears. It actually works as intended (go figure). So if that works, why not eight tabs?

Tabs should not disappear, unless they're trying to play magic tricks on you.

Thanks for the help, but all this shows that this is way more complicated then it should be.
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Re: Numbering text keeps shifting

Postby John_Ha » Thu May 06, 2021 5:13 pm

Please upload a small example file showing the problem so that it can be analysed. Press POSTREPLY and click the Upload attachment tab below where you type (128 kB max); or use a file share site, Dropbox or Google Drive for a larger file.

You can then be told exactly what your problem is and what you are misunderstanding.
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Re: Numbering text keeps shifting

Postby Bill » Thu May 06, 2021 5:54 pm

Steve5 wrote:I know it sounds crazy, but to create the tabs, I went into Format - Paragraphs and in the "position" field, I added tabs (.25, .5, .75 etc), assuming the cursor would go to each tab each time I hit the tab key (gee, what the heck could I possibly be thinking?). If that's not the way to add tabs, then why allow the user to do that, only to have some of them disappear? But that's exactly how you should create tabs because it couldn't be more simple.

Wrong. Writer is about power and consistency, not simplicity. If you want the tab stops in all paragraphs, you should be setting the tabs in the paragraph style(s) applied to the paragraphs, not in the paragraphs themselves. A paragraph style is a named set of character attributes (font, size, etc) and paragraph attributes (indent, tabs, etc). When the paragraph style is applied to a paragraph, the set of attributes is applied to the paragraph. I assume that the Default Paragraph Style is applied to all paragraphs. If so, then you should modify the tab settings in the Default Paragraph Style. To modify the paragraph style applied to a particular paragraph, right-click the paragraph and select "Edit Paragraph Style..." If you have one oddball paragraph where you want different tabs, that's when you use Format > Paragraph > Tabs to set tabs which will override the tabs set by the paragraph style.
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Re: Numbering text keeps shifting

Postby Steve5 » Fri May 07, 2021 12:30 am

Wrong. Writer is about power and consistency, not simplicity.

Who needs power? This is mainly text and maybe graphics and charts if anyone needs to be fancy. It's not a video game. And consistency? I made eight tabs. They should be consistent. They're not.

And I'll leave "simplicity" to Groucho Marx:
"Why make things simple when they can be complicated?"

It's as if Open Office, Libre Office, Word and all these kinds of software assume everyone who uses theirs are automatic experts the minute they use it. Well, most of us aren't. All we want to do is put text where we want as simply as possible, especially when it doesn't have to be complicated at all. Typing words isn't brain surgery or the tax code.

If you want the tab stops in all paragraphs, you should be setting the tabs in the paragraph style(s) applied to the paragraphs, not in the paragraphs themselves. A paragraph style is a named set of character attributes (font, size, etc) and paragraph attributes (indent, tabs, etc). When the paragraph style is applied to a paragraph, the set of attributes is applied to the paragraph. I assume that the Default Paragraph Style is applied to all paragraphs. If so, then you should modify the tab settings in the Default Paragraph Style. To modify the paragraph style applied to a particular paragraph, right-click the paragraph and select "Edit Paragraph Style..."

Um, is this an Abbott and Costello routine?

I guess I have to change the style from the paragraph, to all paragraphs. Then again, I don't have paragraphs in the document - assuming a paragraph is defined as a blank line above and below it. So even if it's set to "just a single paragraph," the tabs still should hold for the entire document because the document is one long paragraph (multiple pages).

Anyway, I went to Format - Paragraph and right clicked on it and it took me to the same "Tab" window that I was using (with the "position" part). So I went back and clicked on "Styles and Formatting" (what a lot of fun that is). The long window opened on the right side and right clicked on "Default" (who knew you could do that?) and it said "New" and "Modify." So I clicked on "Modify" (gee, look at how easy this is!). This had more tabs to choose from than the other window, but in the "Tab" window, which also looked the same, I entered tabs at .33, .66 and 1.33 to see if it would work, and guess what? It didn't! Those three tabs did not appear on the ruler. I don't see any "Edit Paragraph Style."

But let me see if I have this straight. By default they give you tabs at .5" intervals, whether you want them or not, and you can not delete them (unless you figure out that you can make a default tab at the 9" [off the page] mark). And when you make your own tabs, they take them away from you. Yup, makes sense to me!

Again, all I wanted was eight lousy tabs.

By the way, I did change my default tab to .25" (what if I didn't know to do that?) and that worked. So it took a couple of extra days to finish the document. Would have been days quicker if I used a typewriter. And that speaks volumes.

Creating tabs should not be this difficult. And still, no one can simply explain how to put in eight tabs that don't disappear. So if none of you know, or too complicated for you, then how heck is a novice supposed to figure it out? And that speaks volumes too.
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Re: Numbering text keeps shifting

Postby Bill » Fri May 07, 2021 3:10 am

I made hundreds of documents more than 10 years ago with 5 to 9 tabs set using customized paragraph styles. I did not set the tabs using Format > Paragraph > Tabs. I just checked a few of those documents and those tabs are still there. I have no idea why your tabs disappear almost immediately but don't disappear when you try to duplicate the problem. That makes no sense to me. I've never needed to delete any default tabs manually even though I never use them. They are deleted automatically when I insert my preferred tabs which still haven't disappeared.
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Re: Numbering text keeps shifting

Postby RoryOF » Fri May 07, 2021 9:38 am

To do this is simple

Open a new document
Right click and select Edit Paragraph Style (should be Default para style)
Set tabs as desired using the "Tab" tab
Select Organizer tab and check that Next Style is "Default" (should be by default)
Press OK.
Select /Format /Autocorrect and uncheck "While typing".
Save as Default Template (details in [Tutorial] Creating a new default template)

This "typewriter mode" is the wrong way to use Open-/Libre-Office.
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Re: Numbering text keeps shifting

Postby JeJe » Fri May 07, 2021 10:54 am

After you've set the tabs in the dialog box do you press the "OK" button at the bottom? If you close the dialog by pressing the cross in the top right hand corner the tab changes will be lost.
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Re: Numbering text keeps shifting

Postby Steve5 » Sat May 08, 2021 7:11 pm

RoryOF wrote:To do this is simple

Open a new document
Right click and select Edit Paragraph Style (should be Default para style)
Set tabs as desired using the "Tab" tab
Select Organizer tab and check that Next Style is "Default" (should be by default)
Press OK.
Select /Format /Autocorrect and uncheck "While typing".
Save as Default Template (details in [Tutorial] Creating a new default template)

This "typewriter mode" is the wrong way to use Open-/Libre-Office.


I don't see any "Edit Paragraph Style." I did right click on "Paragraph," and did click "Modify" but as I said above, it didn't work.

JeJe wrote:After you've set the tabs in the dialog box do you press the "OK" button at the bottom? If you close the dialog by pressing the cross in the top right hand corner the tab changes will be lost.


Yes, I'm clicking "OK."

I tried to duplicate it again. Here's what's happening. In a new document, using the Format - Paragraph - Tab window, I made some tabs at .25" increments, up to 2". Typed out about half a page, using the tabs. Then somewhere in the middle of that text, I added more tabs, beginning at the 3" mark. But these extra tabs disappear. Trying to find some rhyme or reason when they disappear, it seems they're only there on the top line, and then disappear as you move down with the arrow keys. So the lesson is, don't add tabs after you've started typing because they'll disappear. Which, again, should not be how it's "supposed to work." Most of us who use this aren't experts and don't know the ins and outs of this (and that goes double for "Style and Formatting"). We add tabs in the place they're telling us to - Format - Paragraph - Tab - so we assume they'd work. Why wouldn't they? And if we want to add tabs in the middle of the document, they should work too.

I thought maybe that some formatting only applies from the line at which you set it, from there down. But that's not the case here. The tabs added after staring the document, somewhere in the middle, only show up when the cursor is on the top line (when I added a tab at the top line, that disappears too). But on my original document, some tabs start disappearing a few lines down from the top and then a few more as you go down a bit further. So no rhyme or reason.

I also thought if I highlighted all the text (to tell it that what I'm about to do applies to the whole document) and added a tab, well that messed up the entire document. So that won't work either.

I should point out that the tabs I made first before writing the document, using the Format - Paragraph - Tab window, stay there, even if I click enter to make a new "paragraph." So it's not like the tabs only work for "just that paragraph."

I don't use multiple tabs often. But the next time, I guess I'll have to make sure I enter all the tabs at once before I start.
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Re: Numbering text keeps shifting

Postby John_Ha » Sat May 08, 2021 7:36 pm

Please upload a small example file showing the problem so that it can be analysed. Press POSTREPLY and click the Upload attachment tab below where you type (128 kB max); or use a file share site, Dropbox or Google Drive for a larger file.

You can then be told exactly what your problem is and what you are misunderstanding. Everything else is guesswork.
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Re: Numbering text keeps shifting

Postby RoryOF » Sat May 08, 2021 8:09 pm

Steve5 wrote:
RoryOF wrote:To do this is simple

Open a new document
Right click and select Edit Paragraph Style (should be Default para style)
Set tabs as desired using the "Tab" tab


Right click on the blinking cursor at start of the new document - you should be offered an "Edit paragraph style" in the context menu (the popup from the right click).
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Re: Numbering text keeps shifting

Postby Bill » Sat May 08, 2021 8:33 pm

Here's a sample document with 16 tabs set in the Default Paragraph Style.
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Sixteen_tabs.odt
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Re: Numbering text keeps shifting

Postby John_Ha » Sun May 09, 2021 3:21 pm

Am I alone in noticing that where a poster rants on and on and on about how bad the software is they will not upload a file? The OP has been asked four times to upload a file but has not done so. Responders have to guess what errors are being made instead of having a file and knowing what is wrong.

I think such users probably refuse because uploading such a file will show that the fault lies with the user's lack of understanding and not with the software. Users who rant seem to prefer to complain rather than to be shown they are making error or lack understanding.
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Re: Numbering text keeps shifting

Postby Hagar Delest » Sun May 09, 2021 5:23 pm

+1.
There are also users who do not follow all the suggestions made but still keep complaining.
There seems to be a recent change in users behavior, they want it their way, not imagining at all that they may miss something.
Weird. Or is it my (our) filter that got less tolerant?
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Re: Numbering text keeps shifting

Postby Bill » Sun May 09, 2021 5:59 pm

Steve5 wrote: In a new document, using the Format - Paragraph - Tab window, I made some tabs at .25" increments, up to 2". Typed out about half a page, using the tabs. Then somewhere in the middle of that text, I added more tabs, beginning at the 3" mark. But these extra tabs disappear. Trying to find some rhyme or reason when they disappear, it seems they're only there on the top line, and then disappear as you move down with the arrow keys.

I think I may finally see why your tabs "disappear". If you're in one paragraph and add tabs using Format > Paragraph > Tabs, you're adding tabs to that paragraph only. Format > Paragraph does not ever modify other non-selected paragraphs. If you then use the arrow keys to move down to another paragraph, the added tabs won't be in that paragraph because you never added them to that paragraph. They haven't "disappeared" because they were never there. Also, tabs are not added to the "top line" only unless the "top line" is the only line in the selected paragraph. Format > Paragraph applies to the whole paragraph, not individual lines. Format > Paragraph is never used to make global changes to paragraphs. That job is for paragraph styles.
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Re: Numbering text keeps shifting

Postby John_Ha » Sun May 09, 2021 8:30 pm

The use of tabs is described on pages 49, 72 and 212 in the Guide.
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Re: Numbering text keeps shifting

Postby Steve5 » Tue May 11, 2021 1:16 am

Right click on the blinking cursor at start of the new document - you should be offered an "Edit paragraph style" in the context menu (the popup from the right click).


Ohhhhhhh....Had no idea.

Wonder if right-clicking to "Edit..." would work after starting the document. I'll have to check that out some time.


Am I alone in noticing that where a poster rants on and on and on about how bad the software is they will not upload a file? The OP has been asked four times to upload a file but has not done so. Responders have to guess what errors are being made instead of having a file and knowing what is wrong.


At first, I said I could not - repeat not - duplicate the issue. And I didn't want to spend the time trying to. How can I upload a file without the issue? I was explaining everything I was doing in detail. And if you can't follow what I was saying, well, that's more proof that creating tabs is more complicated then it should be.

And then, after figuring out what the issue was (adding tabs after I started writing the document) I explained it on Saturday instead of uploading a file.

I think such users probably refuse because uploading such a file will show that the fault lies with the user's lack of understanding and not with the software. Users who rant seem to prefer to complain rather than to be shown they are making error or lack understanding.


Well yes, obviously there is a lack of understanding because making tabs should not be this complicated at all. If it wasn't this complicated, then it would be understandable and this part of the post wouldn't have been necessary (and ended with the numbering issue).

There are also users who do not follow all the suggestions made but still keep complaining.
There seems to be a recent change in users behavior, they want it their way, not imagining at all that they may miss something.
Weird. Or is it my (our filter that got less tolerant?


I said in my May 6 post that I tried the suggestions and they did not work (turned out I didn't do them correctly). And yes, I'm complaining because when I set tabs they should work and should not under any circumstances disappear. I know that sounds crazy to all of you, but if that's having it my way, then I'm crazy.

Also, I said last week that I had completed the document by making .25" default tabs and I don't use tabs often. So I really didn't need to follow any more suggestions. But I tired them anyway.

The use of tabs is described on pages 49, 72 and 212 in the Guide.


There's a guide? And three separate pages on the use of lousy tabs? I think that says it all. I have a better idea: Go to Format - Paragraph - Tab tab, and set tabs. (Or Format - and have a Tab setting in the scroll down window, with a Tab icon on the top). And in that Tab window, there would be a box to check or uncheck if you want those tabs just for that paragraph or entire document. And maybe a third box for "Just this page."

There. Two or three sentences. Even a novice like me would figure that out. What's wrong with that? Or is the objective to make this more complicated then it should be?

All this because I set tabs and they disappeared, as if them disappearing was my fault for not being an expert in this.
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Re: Numbering text keeps shifting

Postby JeJe » Tue May 11, 2021 1:32 am

Tab window, there would be a box to check or uncheck if you want those tabs just for that paragraph or entire document. And maybe a third box for "Just this page."


This is chosen by selecting the paragraphs you want the tabs to apply to before you open the dialog or click on the ruler to set them.
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Re: Numbering text keeps shifting

Postby RoryOF » Tue May 11, 2021 10:22 am

My post of May 07 indicates how to do this, in seven short lines. You admit that you did that incorrectly: have you returned and tried without your error?

As I said before, you may not have made the correct choice of editor to suit your preconceptions.

You have previously been directed to this (shorter) document
Writer for students (several languages)

A more extensive guide is at
Guide for Writer v3, substantially unchanged for v4

I note you have been using OpenOffice since at least October 2013 when you subscribed to Forum, and have 142 posts. This causes me to remember a quote from Talleyrand about the Bourbons:
Ils n’ont rien appris, ni rien oublié
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Re: Numbering text keeps shifting

Postby John_Ha » Tue May 11, 2021 10:49 am

Rory

May I suggest you don't feed the troll as it isn't listening to anything so you are wasting your time. I long since gave up.

It has written 3,044 words in all and received 1,269 words in reply with 28 posts in the thread - that surpasses your normal limit :super:

It has been asked four times for a file and has been given given detailed instructions how to upload a file but it refuses to help us. The problem could have been solved in fifty words for a non-ranter with

Please see the attached file. I'm trying to number separate text, each number after "1." indented .25" from each other, so I have tabs set .25" apart( "2." would be .25" from the margin, "3." would be .5" from the left margin and so on). How do I do it?
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See the Writer Guide, the Writer FAQ, the Writer Tutorials and Writer for students.

Remember: Always save your Writer files as .odt files. - see here for the many reasons why.
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Re: Numbering text keeps shifting

Postby JeJe » Tue May 11, 2021 11:14 am

I think people are being way too hard on the OP here... he's not understanding something and he's put effort into all he's written to try and get that understanding.

There's a guide? And three separate pages on the use of lousy tabs? I think that says it all. I have a better idea: Go to Format - Paragraph - Tab tab, and set tabs. (Or Format - and have a Tab setting in the scroll down window, with a Tab icon on the top). And in that Tab window, there would be a box to check or uncheck if you want those tabs just for that paragraph or entire document. And maybe a third box for "Just this page."


The good thing about OO/LO is they give access to all the underlying works... so someone could potentially write some macros that do it that way (edit: or if they're a developer, change the program). That aside you just have to work round how it is.
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Re: Numbering text keeps shifting

Postby Bill » Tue May 11, 2021 3:46 pm

Steve5 wrote: I have a better idea: Go to Format - Paragraph - Tab tab, and set tabs. (Or Format - and have a Tab setting in the scroll down window, with a Tab icon on the top). And in that Tab window, there would be a box to check or uncheck if you want those tabs just for that paragraph or entire document. And maybe a third box for "Just this page."

I have a more viable idea. Since the Paragraph dialog is used to modify settings for selected paragraphs, just select the paragraphs before selecting Format > Paragraph > Tabs. The options you're proposing just change the scope of the selection. You can submit an enhancement request to add the options, but the list of open enhancement requests is already very long.
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