Writer trashing my content

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Writer trashing my content

Postby AmyInNH » Thu Dec 26, 2019 9:34 pm

I opened my resume today to review before sending it off to a recruiter and find Writer has changed much of the content, and not for the better. :crazy:
My confidence in usability of Writer has tanked.
Among the dysfunctions,
- Solid bullet points have been changed to question marks.
- Carriage returns have been converted to "I" and appear on blank lines and prefacing sentences. If I attempt to delete these, it deletes the first character of the line.
- Alignment in sections have been eliminated.
These types of things have happened repeatedly through the years and today's is the worst I've seen.
A friend recommended OpenOffice, and I presumed it was not a toy, but a peer of Microsoft Word, being as this outputs .doc and .docx as an option. Is this an incorrect assumption?
OpenOffice 4.1.2 on Windows 8
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Re: Writer trashing my content

Postby Zizi64 » Thu Dec 26, 2019 10:09 pm

Among the dysfunctions,
- Solid bullet points have been changed to question marks.
- Carriage returns have been converted to "I" and appear on blank lines and prefacing sentences. If I attempt to delete these, it deletes the first character of the line.
- Alignment in sections have been eliminated.

NEVER use the foreign, obsolete, never standardized MS Office binary fileformats with the Apache OpenOffice or LibreOffice.
Use the International standard ODF file formats, and export the document into PDF format - if you want send it to somebody who want not edit it.
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Please, edit the initial post in the topic: add the word [Solved] at the beginning of the subject line - if your problem has been solved.
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Re: Writer trashing my content

Postby AmyInNH » Thu Dec 26, 2019 10:19 pm

I have no idea what "foreign, obsolete, never standardized MS Office binary fileformats" is supposed to mean.
Employers specify MS format, and OpenOffice claims it exports as these formats: .doc and .docx.
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Re: Writer trashing my content

Postby Zizi64 » Thu Dec 26, 2019 10:24 pm

The standardized ODF (.odt for the textual documents) and the multiversion .doc fileformats are not fully compatible. You will lost some formatting properties at the conversions. And the AOO/LO will convert your .doc document at every opening and saving procedure.

The LibreOffice can save into the .docx file format, but the OOXML fileformats has more than one versions.

Otherwise the newer MS Office versions can handle the international standard ODF file formats.
Tibor Kovacs, Hungary; LO6.1.6, 6.2.8 /Win7-10 x64Prof.
PortableApps/winPenPack: LO3.3.0-6.4.0; AOO4.1.6
Please, edit the initial post in the topic: add the word [Solved] at the beginning of the subject line - if your problem has been solved.
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Re: Writer trashing my content

Postby Zizi64 » Thu Dec 26, 2019 10:25 pm

I have no idea what "foreign, obsolete, never standardized MS Office binary fileformats" is supposed to mean.

That is the binary .doc fileformat/s/ (because it has many-many poorly documented subversions).
Tibor Kovacs, Hungary; LO6.1.6, 6.2.8 /Win7-10 x64Prof.
PortableApps/winPenPack: LO3.3.0-6.4.0; AOO4.1.6
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Re: Writer trashing my content

Postby RoryOF » Thu Dec 26, 2019 10:31 pm

Consistent and reliable formatting is only guaranteed when using the native formats of an application. In the case of OpenOffice these are the ODF formats (for Writer .odt).
Apache OpenOffice 4.1.7 on Xubuntu 18.04.4 (mostly 64 bit version) and very infrequently on Win2K/XP
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Re: Writer trashing my content

Postby John_Ha » Thu Dec 26, 2019 11:35 pm

AmyInNH wrote:I have no idea what "foreign, obsolete, never standardized MS Office binary file formats" is supposed to mean.

In that case you have much you need to learn.

See [Tutorial] Differences between Writer and MS Word files for an explanation and for why you should always work in, and save files as, .odt. You will read

Specification

Because the DOC file format was a closed specification for many years, inconsistent handling of the format persists and may cause some loss of formatting information when handling the same file with multiple word processing programs. Some specifications for Microsoft Office 97 binary file formats were published in 1997 under a restrictive license, but these specifications were removed from online download in 1999. Specifications of later versions of Microsoft Office binary file formats were not publicly available.

The DOC format specification was available from Microsoft on request since 2006 under restrictive RAND-Z terms until February 2008. Sun Microsystems and OpenOffice.org reverse engineered the file format. On February 15, 2008, Microsoft released a .DOC format specification under the Microsoft Open Specification Promise. However, this specification does not describe all of the features used by DOC format and reverse engineered work remains necessary.

Since 2008 the specification has been updated several times; the last change was made in September 2015
.

Also you have presumably either switched off, or completely ignored, the warning AOO gives you that formatting or content may be lost if you persist in saving files in formats other than .odt.
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LO 6.3.4.2, Windows 10 Home 64 bit

See the Writer Guide, the Writer FAQ, the Writer Tutorials and Writer for students.

Remember: Always save your Writer files as .odt files. - see here for the many reasons why.
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Re: Writer trashing my content

Postby AmyInNH » Fri Dec 27, 2019 1:41 pm

"it has many-many poorly documented subversions"
Having written network protocols interacting with Microsoft's years back, this comes as no surprise.
"Also you have presumably either switched off, or completely ignored, the warning"
Absolutely. Years back, this warning appeared (which looked to be default), and had no effect on the output. Very, very specifically, it trained me to ignore it. I now see that it had no effect on some docs, and mangled some others.
"NEVER use the foreign, obsolete, never standardized MS Office binary fileformats with the Apache OpenOffice or LibreOffice."
It makes no sense to retain Save As formats in Writer's UI that aren't truly supported.

In any case, thanks for clarification.
OpenOffice 4.1.2 on Windows 8
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Re: Writer trashing my content

Postby John_Ha » Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:12 pm

AmyInNH wrote:It makes no sense to retain Save As formats in Writer's UI that aren't truly supported.

You are completely correct ...

... apart from the fact that there are millions of people out there who are totally ignorant of Microsoft's policies and who, like the employers you refer to, think .doc is an "international standard" instead of being a "proprietary de-facto pseudo-standard" which (like .docx!) can be, and is, changed on a whim by its owner.

The Open Document Format for Office Applications (ODF), also known as OpenDocument, (ie .odt for text files) is a ZIP-compressed XML-based file format for spreadsheets, charts, presentations and word processing documents. It was developed with the aim of providing an open, XML-based file format specification for office applications.

The standard was developed by a technical committee in the Organization for the Advancement of Structured Information Standards (OASIS) consortium. It was based on the Sun Microsystems specification for OpenOffice.org XML, the default format for OpenOffice.org and LibreOffice. It was originally developed for StarOffice "to provide an open standard for office documents."

In addition to being an OASIS standard, it was published as an ISO/IEC international standard ISO/IEC 26300 – Open Document Format for Office Applications (OpenDocument).

Were Microsoft the slightest bit interested in creating documents which could easily be shared they would have adopted ODF for their documents. Instead they came up with the b*stardised OOXML pseudo standard .docx which, by default, is disabled in MS Word.

All versions of MS Word later than 2007? can read and write .odt files. Users, and your potential employers, are generally ignorant of this fact.

When you get to an interview with any employer and you are asked if you have any questions ask them why they insist on documents being supplied in a "proprietary de-facto pseudo-standard" like .doc or .docx instead of an international standard like PDF, preferably; or .odt. Continue that you are not sure you want to take a position with any company that ignorant.
LO 6.3.4.2, Windows 10 Home 64 bit

See the Writer Guide, the Writer FAQ, the Writer Tutorials and Writer for students.

Remember: Always save your Writer files as .odt files. - see here for the many reasons why.
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