[Issue] Cell Back Color

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marcosramos
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[Issue] Cell Back Color

Post by marcosramos »

Hello,

When you paint down one or more cells with a back color, the back color icon turns to the default "no color".
Wouln't it make more sense of staying with the same last color applied?

Is this an issue or a "feature"?

Thank you
Last edited by Hagar Delest on Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:38 am, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Tagged thread as Issue (link to a bug report).
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acknak
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Re: Cell Back Color

Post by acknak »

You're right. In fact, that's the way it works in Writer; I have no idea why it's different in Calc.

I haven't checked, but I'm fairly sure this has been requested.
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marcosramos
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Re: Cell Back Color

Post by marcosramos »

I get a lot of "complaints" everyday :) I've installed it on a lot of computers...

Will post soon some (after i search on the forum)
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kingfisher
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Re: Cell Back Color

Post by kingfisher »

You could consider using styles instead of hard formatting colours: F11 or the menu Format> Styles & Formatting. You should be able to assign each style to a key binding (that's broken on my version).
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marcosramos
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Re: Cell Back Color

Post by marcosramos »

Would do for an advanced user, that works mainly with same colors.
But to another not so experienced user that deals with something as different as OpenOffice (yes, users say its a LOT different - personally don't know where :P)...
To apply colors to some cells its painfull...

The formatting brush's problem is that the text formatting comes along which is not the point here...

Can anyone tell me if this could be considered an issue? If yes, can you point me the way to check if there is already a ticket created for this one or how can I create a new?

Thank you so much...
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Re: Cell Back Color

Post by kingfisher »

The point has been raised on oooforum. I don't remember whether an issue has been filed with oo.o. When you start the process of filing an issue, you are encouraged to find out whether an issue has already been filed. I have a link for issue reports. You have to register before you can file an issue. I find that searching tells me nothing, the process is unnecessarily convoluted and I tend to file an issue without caring over much whether it is a duplicate. If it is a duplicate, it will be marked as such and you can vote for the previous issue.
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Dave
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Re: Cell Back Color

Post by Dave »

marcosramos wrote:Hello,

When you paint down one or more cells with a back color, the back color icon turns to the default "no color".
Wouln't it make more sense of staying with the same last color applied?
I am not being the least bit facetious here when I ask, "Why do you think it makes more sense?" It would be important only if you would want to keep using the same colour. I'd suspect that most users do not use the same background colour always when there is so much choice, and that in fact they would more often change than not. So, would it matter if they started from the same chosen background or from the default to then choose another colour?

As I say, I'm not being facetious. Some argue similarly on the alternate uses of British or Metric measure. I'm quite equally at home with each, so it's of no bother either way. What I'm suggesting is... would it not be equally a bother that the background colour is retained if you wanted to change it?

I can easily copy a coloured background by choosing one such cell, and copy/pasting from there to the range requiring the same colour background.

David.
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Re: Cell Back Color

Post by kingfisher »

I agree with that sentiment. There are many instances where presenting an existing or the previous choice is irritating. In this case, though, what is presented is "no colour choice", which is obviously far less likely than the previous choice. If you wanted "no colour choice", you would not be using the tool.
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Re: Cell Back Color

Post by acknak »

Here's the issue: Issue 10864: Border/Backgroundcolor button on toolbar is not 'sticky'. Notably, it's targeted to be fixed for OOo 3.0, coming in September.

I think the logic goes something like this. There are only two situations: either
a) The user wants to set a different color than the previous setting, or
b) The user wants to repeat the same color setting as before.

If the situation is (a), then having a "sticky" color button doesn't hurt anything. The user must pick the new color.

If the situation is (b), then having a "sticky" color button is a huge win.

So you lose nothing and you gain something (and possibly a lot), regardless of whether a or b is more often the case.

In fact, the OOo color buttons are not very helpful even for situation (a), because they don't show you which swatch is the current color. You have to look at the swatches and try to guess which one matches the current one.

The simple fact is that fixing pure usability issues like have a very low priority in OOo--understandably. Still, I will be very happy to be proved wrong if it actually appears with OOo 3.0.
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Dave
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Re: Cell Back Color

Post by Dave »

acknak wrote:If the situation is (b), then having a "sticky" color button is a huge win.
I have to agree. In the meantime, the copy/paste will accommodate that to some extent.

David.
marcosramos
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Re: Cell Back Color

Post by marcosramos »

Great news :)
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dzurn
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Re: [Issue] Cell Back Color

Post by dzurn »

I have been looking for information on the background color/colour issue for some time. How can I find out what the background color is for a cell?!? I can copy and paste the formatting, but even the cell info screen doesn't tell me the color name!

I can't wait for the sticky button for background/foreground colors! I voted for the issues but it's been a long time coming for some of these usability problems.

Thanks
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Re: [Issue] Cell Back Color

Post by acknak »

How can I find out what the background color is for a cell?!? I can copy and paste the formatting, but even the cell info screen doesn't tell me the color name!
Why do you need to know the color name?

What are you trying to accomplish?
 Edit: And, please start a new topic unless your question flows very closely from this existing topic. 
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dzurn
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Re: [Issue] Cell Back Color

Post by dzurn »

acknak wrote:
How can I find out what the background color is for a cell?!? I can copy and paste the formatting, but even the cell info screen doesn't tell me the color name!
Why do you need to know the color name?

What are you trying to accomplish?
Fair enough. When I am trying to use the same color in one cell as appears in another in someone else's spreadsheet, I want to know the name of the background (or foreground/text) color. That way I can differentiate between Blue 4, Sea Blue, Blue 3, and Light Blue for example. I don't like clicking mercilessly until I finally click on what might be the same color. And how can I distinguish between "No Fill" and "White" as the background?
acknak wrote:
 Edit: And, please start a new topic unless your question flows very closely from this existing topic. 
I think this is quite closely related, since if the color isn't "sticky" in the drop-down menu, then how do I repeat the same color in another cell? Copy and pasting for formatting might work if I haven't already styled the cells in other ways.

Basically it seems the background color selection is 'write-only' if the color name already in a cell doesn't show up anywhere accessible.

I am ultimately looking for to determine a random cell's current background color and/or font color.

Thanks
Darryl
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Re: [Issue] Cell Back Color

Post by acknak »

One place you can see which color is selected is to open the cell's format properties window: right click > Format Cells > Background. This will show you which color (if you look closely, the current color swatch has a border around it), and the color name at the bottom.

If the cell uses a custom color, you're simply out of luck without opening up the document's XML code, or using some other graphics utility to pick a color off the screen. There's no way at all to find what the RGB values are through the UI.

If you need complicated formatting, I encourage you to learn how to use Calc's cell styles. It's really the best way to keep everything consistent, and you can "stack" the styles to separate the border settings from the background color.

BTW, do you know about the "format paintbrush"? It's a bit easier than copy/paste of the cell format.
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dzurn
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Re: [Issue] Cell Back Color

Post by dzurn »

acknak wrote:One place you can see which color is selected is to open the cell's format properties window: right click > Format Cells > Background. This will show you which color (if you look closely, the current color swatch has a border around it), and the color name at the bottom.
I'm not sure when that stopped working, but it doesn't show the correct color highlight or name any more. I think it broke in the last 3 or 4 months, but I haven't seen anything in Issue Tracker, besides the "sticky" issue which is close but not the same.
acknak wrote:If the cell uses a custom color, you're simply out of luck without opening up the document's XML code, or using some other graphics utility to pick a color off the screen. There's no way at all to find what the RGB values are through the UI.
I haven't used custom colors at all, but I have found how to do that if I want. I suspect the same issue would present itself.
acknak wrote: If you need complicated formatting, I encourage you to learn how to use Calc's cell styles. It's really the best way to keep everything consistent, and you can "stack" the styles to separate the border settings from the background color.
I even tried making a style and editing it, to see if the color name is present there. It's not. I've come to the conclusion that in the versions of OpenOffice I'm using (NeoOffice 2.2.4 for Mac, OOo 3 beta 2 for Mac OS X, and OOo-dev latest) the background color names and font colors names are very hard to retrieve from existing files.

I have had a tiny bit of success in leaving the background color palette open and then using the palette to change a color. The color name appears at the bottom of the palette, but it doesn't update when you select a different cell:
Showing the color name of the selected cell (B2) is not reflected in the Background palette window
Showing the color name of the selected cell (B2) is not reflected in the Background palette window
acknak wrote: BTW, do you know about the "format paintbrush"? It's a bit easier than copy/paste of the cell format.
Yes, I've used that.

Thanks for your thoughts on this, the functionality seems to have regressed in recent months but I haven't tested enough to enter a new issue at Issue Tracker.

Darryl
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Re: [Issue] Cell Back Color

Post by acknak »

I've come to the conclusion that... the background color names and font colors names are very hard to retrieve from existing files.
I'm not sure what you mean by that. OOo 2.4.1 has no problem showing the background color with existing files, even 3- or 4-year-old sheets in the old .sxc format.

This feature could be a new addition, possibly made without an issue to track it. I have to say that I've not noticed it before, but then I haven't really looked for it.
I have had a tiny bit of success in leaving the background color palette open and then using the palette to change a color. The color name appears at the bottom of the palette, but it doesn't update when you select a different cell:
Again, I'm confused. In my OOo, the style properties dialog is modal: it's not possible to change to a different cell without first closing the properties dialog.

Just for kicks, here's what I'm looking at:
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color_back.png
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Re: [Issue] Cell Back Color

Post by probe1 »

acknak: you are looking at Format>Cells...
Darryl has opened the Format toolbar icon "Background"
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Re: [Issue] Cell Back Color

Post by acknak »

Nice catch, Winfried! I was careful to spell out how to get the dialog, but then I just assumed that we were looking at the same thing. Thanks!
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dzurn
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Re: [Issue] Cell Back Color

Post by dzurn »

Here's the two background palettes side by side:
Background palette window vs. Format Cells dialog, OOo-300, Intel Mac. Note the new scrollbar in the Format Cells window as well.
Background palette window vs. Format Cells dialog, OOo-300, Intel Mac. Note the new scrollbar in the Format Cells window as well.
I can see now the swatch name in the Format Cells window, but I am 100% sure that it was not showing up earlier today with the same build, in the same window!

I recall that, because I noticed that the extra Chart colors caused a scrollbar to appear in the Format Cells dialog, but not in the Background window/palette. At that time, the Format Cells ALSO didn't show the swatch name, but now it does.

Either I'm going nuts or... I'm going nuts. Neither is good :(

Thanks
Darryl
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