[Issue] Where are outline formats stored?

[Joseph_N]

[OO0 2.4.0] When I save a new multi-level outline format, I can choose a name. Are such saved formats stored in the active template? The default template? A different type of file? (In which case, what is it and where can it be found?) I would like to copy the outline settings from my desktop to my laptop.

And perhaps this is a related question: I just updated some preferences (Tools/Options). I could not find any file, either in Windows program files or my user directory, that was updated with the same timestamp as my changed preferences. Again, where are these settings kept, and in what file? Same reason: to sync with my laptop.

[foxcole]

[OO0 2.4.0] When I save a new multi-level outline format, I can choose a name. Are such saved formats stored in the active template?

I'm not sure it's the "outline format" that you're naming and saving. Exactly how are you doing this and where are you giving it a name? Are you perhaps saving the document that contains an outline you set up?

The default template? A different type of file? (In which case, what is it and where can it be found?) I would like to copy the outline settings from my desktop to my laptop.

All styles are stored locally in the document. When you create a new document, you're creating a snapshot copy of the template you base it on (typically the default template, though you can set up and use any number of custom templates). Any changes you make affect no external files at all. You either need to save a copy of the current document as a template, or manually load styles from one document (or template) to another.

You can read about templates in the Writer Guide (see links in my signature) and [Tutorial] Creating a new default template.

And perhaps this is a related question: I just updated some preferences (Tools/Options). I could not find any file, either in Windows program files or my user directory, that was updated with the same timestamp as my changed preferences. Again, where are these settings kept, and in what file? Same reason: to sync with my laptop.

Just copy your user profile folder from one installation to the other. On Windows (at least through XP, not sure about Vista) that's found in C:\Documents and Settings\your userID\Application Data\OpenOffice.org2.

[Hagar Delest]

[OO0 2.4.0] When I save a new multi-level outline format, I can choose a name. Are such saved formats stored in the active template?

I'm not sure it's the "outline format" that you're naming and saving. Exactly how are you doing this and where are you giving it a name? Are you perhaps saving the document that contains an outline you set up?

Tools>Outline Numbering then Format button at bottom. I've never tried that option but it seems to save the format somewhere in the OOo user profile because it's available for other documents after I save one layout.

[foxcole]

Tools>Outline Numbering then Format button at bottom. I've never tried that option but it seems to save the format somewhere in the OOo user profile because it's available for other documents after I save one layout.

Ah! That's one of those things I never use so I never notice. Interesting. I'll have to play with that sometime just to see how it works. I'm not sure how much that makes sense, though. I've only used three different outline numbering styles but they are unique to each document type I work with: an all-in-one book format, a master document, and sub documents to the master. The outline setup in the master document overrides those in the sub documents. Perhaps they're all being stored in different "Untitled" slots and I'm just not aware of it. On the other hand, because these actually define the document structure when they're applied, it does seem to make sense to store them outside of the templates rather than internally. Sort of.

In any case, it seems that it should be available on the second computer by copying the user profile from the first.

[Joseph_N]

In any case, it seems that it should be available on the second computer by copying the user profile from the first.

Did not work.

Copying the "C:\Documents and Settings\[username]\Application Data\OpenOffice.org2\user" folder, including all subfolders, to the laptop does not make the saved outline format available. (This was predictable, since none of the user profile files on the desktop changed after having saved the outline numbering format.) So the mystery is still open: where are these formats saved??

On a related point, it seems to me far better architecture to store these settings in the document template so they are available for sharing or, essentially, as numbering styles related to the document content. But that's a feature request for the future. At the moment, I'm still trying to find where the settings are stored. Any help would be appreciated.

[Hagar Delest]

Weird indeed. The setting is kept for the session only. If you close OOo, then it's no more available. And it's not saved in the file you were working one. Then, I'm wondering what is the real use of that feature! Perhaps a bug around here.

[foxcole]

Weird indeed. The setting is kept for the session only. If you close OOo, then it's no more available. And it's not saved in the file you were working one. Then, I'm wondering what is the real use of that feature! Perhaps a bug around here.

Doesn't seem very useful at all, then. I had been about to suggest that it might be stored in the Share folder (with autotext, autocorrect, dictionaries, etc.) which is available to all users at the installation level, but is replaced at each new installation for some unfathomable reason... but apparently that won't help here. How vexing!

But, on the other hand, what would be the use of that? Outline numbering is tied to styles in the document where it is applied. A level 1 header and a correspondent level 1 TOC entry could differ greatly from document to document.. spacing, indents, characters before and after, etc. It does seem like it should be a template-level (i.e., document-level) setting... yet it can't be a page property, because it structures the whole document. What level would it reside at, then? Page styles are the highest level that can be stored in a template; everything else is application level in the Share folder, but outline numbering is tied too closely to styles for that to be practical from user to user or document to document.

So maybe that's why it doesn't exist outside the current session. Maybe that feature should just go away, if they can't find a useful and usable and logical way to preserve it under the current architecture.

[Joseph_N]

the Share folder (with autotext, autocorrect, dictionaries, etc.) which is available to all users at the installation level, but is replaced at each new installation for some unfathomable reason...

Where is the Share folder located?

[foxcole]

Where is the Share folder located?

In your installation folder. That's what I meant by features being available at the installation level... things available to the application rather than just to the user.

C:\Program Files\OpenOffice.org 2.4

The Share folder actually doesn't get replaced, but is created new with each installation. If you don't fully uninstall the previous version of OOo, you'll find an installation folder still exists for each version. It contains just the Share folder and the Program folder for that installation, so you can just copy these from one version to the next, before you delete the old version completely.

[Hagar Delest]

Actually, it's a bug: Issue 69049 - Format in "Outline Numbering" not saved anymore!

[foxcole]

Actually, it's a bug: Issue 69049 - Format in "Outline Numbering" not saved anymore!

Ah! Well done as usual, Hagar. I couldn't find that. 2006, reported on version 2.0.3, which was only a couple of releases from the major 2.0 format change, so it's not surprising that the fix is slated for 3.0.

But I still don't think it should be a user-level setting, if other application-level items such as dictionaries, autotext files and autocorrect files are not. Where should the line be drawn? I don't remember seeing any notes that this particular line will change with 3.0, either. The expectation originally reported in that issue is the same as the original expectation in this thread.... seems logical at first but when you start piecing it out, doesn't quite seem to fit the user profile.

I guess we'll wait and see.

[Hagar Delest]

But I still don't think it should be a user-level setting, if other application-level items such as dictionaries, autotext files and autocorrect files are not.

Well, autotext and autocorrect files are user-level, as can be dictionaries, aren't they?

When I think about it, it makes sense in fact: that feature allows the user to set (say 10) different outline numbering layouts. Therefore, you don't need to configure 10 Heading 1 styles, 10 Heading 2, 10 Heading 3, ... That's a kind of meta-style for headings.

[Jon]

As always when the matter of outlining comes up, I wonder if everyone is talking about the same thing. It appears to me that the original question related to the outlining feature on the Format | Bullets and Numbering menu rather than Tools | Outline Numbering. It probably doesn't change the answer. OOo doesn't provide a way to save a custom outline format on the Bullets and Numbering menu. I have made a template document which includes my custom outline format and this is saved in my template folder so transferring it to another computer is just a matter of copying this folder.

However, using a template is not as handy as actually being able to store the custom format as an outline format which appears on the outline tab along with the stock formats provided by the program. It's one of those little additions which would be an nice extra for those of us who regularly use this feature.

[Hagar Delest]

I wonder if everyone is talking about the same thing. It appears to me that the original question related to the outlining feature on the Format | Bullets and Numbering menu rather than Tools | Outline Numbering.

I don't think so. There is no place to save an outline format in the Format>Bullets and Numbering menu, it is in Tools>Outline Numbering.

OOo doesn't provide a way to save a custom outline format on the Bullets and Numbering menu.

Bullets and Numbering are not for outline (as headings) but for lists. You can set and save a layout in the bullets and numbering list styles. See the Stylist (F11), right icon in the left group. You can have as many numbering styles as you want.

[Jon]

Bullets and Numbering are not for outline (as headings) but for lists.

I suppose it's a matter of semantics. The tab for outlines in "bullets and numbers" is named "outlines" and has available what I have called outlines all my life. Maybe they should consider calling it something else, but I have no clue what it would be other than outlines.

In any event, your calling it a list, whether a matter of semantics or not, and the suggestion on adding it to the style lists, finally turned on the light bulb for something I've mumbled under my breath about in OOo for the last 2-3 years and you provided the obvious solution. I suppose when one is used to working with a function in another program it's hard to twist your way of thinking to adapt to a different way of approaching the same problem.

[Hagar Delest]

The tab for outlines in "bullets and numbers" is named "outlines" and has available what I have called outlines all my life.

That's why I added the indication that I was talking about headings.

And yes, facing a different way of thinking is part of the learning curve when you switch to OOo (or any other application).