[Solved+Issue] Tables In Front of Graphics

[Tarostar]

I've searched the forums and can't find any help on this one.

I want to set a background image that fills the entire page, but I need mirrored margins (i.e. the inner margin needs to be bigger than the outer).
While the mirrored margins setting works great that means that the image will not go to the edge.
There are 2 work-arounds I have found, but both have serious problems making them unusable.

1. Remove margins and use borders. This works great, but sadly you can't do mirrored margins with borders (if you can then I want to know how).

2. Insert the image in the header or footer and set it to be in the background and resize it to fill the whole page. Not too neat as it makes editing harder, but it works. However, the problem is that tables are drawn behind this image for some reason and cannot be brought forward (if they can I'd love to know how). The text is still drawn on top of the image, but the black (or any colour) background of the table is drawn behind the image. The only way around it I've found is to insert a frame around the table, but this frame doesn't size itself according to the table and so I have to resize it manually. Given that I have about 370 pages with over a hundred tables in all shapes and sizes (some going over several pages) this solution is not really workable. It's not very neat either with frames behaving differently in the text flow from the tables.

Ideally I would love to just have the image be the background and go to the edge, despite the margins, but any improvement on what I've come up with will be greatfully received.

Thanks

[acknak]

You may want to look over this thread for some discussion: http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/ ... f=7&t=2397

I don't think there is any simple answer, other than: you're using the wrong tool

[Tarostar]

Thank you for the link, but I've seen it during my research.

I believe tables being hidden behind images rendered in the background to be a bug. I would love to be proven wrong and told how to solve this.

I do know that there is far more powerful page layout software out there, but open office has been great for me as it is something I know, free and until now it has been able to do everthing I needed it to. It is just the right mix of text editor and desktop publishing tool. I have tried free versions of various page layout software in the past, but with a background as a software developer and writer I found them difficult to use, but most importantly I did not find an easy way to import the text and tables with all their formatting from open office into the page layout software. The idea of having to redo all the styles, tables, paragraphs, chapter headings, etc. in another piece of software is extremely discouraging. I'm only doing this on my own time after work and don't have a lot of free time for tedious formatting. That is why I really love open office writer which allows me to complete the whole process in a single piece of software and gives me lots of tools to automate most of the formatting.

If you do know a page layout product that will import open office documents with their styles and other formatting then I'd love to try it out, but I would prefer to just figure out a solution to the background image problem with the tables.

Thanks

[RoryOF]

A quick thought: Why not set your margins to zero so that your background covers the entire page (query: will your printer print to the page edge?). Then place a single column on your pages, positioned to the correct position to act as pseudo margins inner and outer. This will require you to define a Left and a Right page style to get the correct placement on the page. I haven't given thought to how you will manage pseudo top and bottom margins, but perhaps the Header/Footer mechanism will help here by specifying abnormally oversized spacing off the page edge, even if you are not using headers or footers in your layout.

[Hagar Delest]

Can you upload a sample file so that we try to tweak it (see How to attach a document here)?

[Tarostar]

Hi

I've created an example of each and two screenshots for those who do not want to open the odt files. I've kept the file size down, but I see I can only add one attachment per message so apologies for posting four messages in a row.

This shows the odt with a background image/colours being cropped by the margins. This would look awful if printed.

Background cropped my margins

[Tarostar]

This shows what happens to tables if the image is placed as a background (in this case in the header) and set as "in background". Sending it to back makes no difference.

The table header is supposed to be black background with white text.

Table background overwritten by background image.

[Tarostar]

Here is the background image being cropped by margins odt

[Tarostar]

Here is the background image placed in the header as background, but overwriting the table background odt.

[RoryOF]

If you wish to have coloured backgrounds, the simplest (and least expensive) answer is to go to your friendly local wholesale paper supplier and buy ready coloured paper. This may not have quite the subtlety of background you desire, but will cost a lot less than new ink cartridges or toners, which overall backgrounds will require very quickly.

[Hagar Delest]

Or you can use a frame with a background color (say white) with a 100% transparency:

BackgroundImageWithFrame.odt

(40.23 KiB) Downloaded 190 times

Please add '[Solved]' at the beginning of your first post title (edit button) if your issue has been fixed.

[Tarostar]

Or you can use a frame with a background color (say white) with a 100% transparency:

BackgroundImageWithFrame.odt

Please add '[Solved]' at the beginning of your first post title (edit button) if your issue has been fixed.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I did mention frames in my original post: "The only way around it I've found is to insert a frame around the table, but this frame doesn't size itself according to the table and so I have to resize it manually. Given that I have about 370 pages with over a hundred tables in all shapes and sizes (some going over several pages) this solution is not really workable. It's not very neat either with frames behaving differently in the text flow from the tables."

It is a very slow and manual process and I'm not too happy about the result as the frame does not automatically wrap around the correct size of the table and the table will change in size to fit inside the frame messing up the table contents. Often undo does not work either which means if a mistake is made I have to close and re-open the document (takes time with 370 pages with text, tables and images). Sorry if I'm being difficult, but seeing as this is not the first or last book I'm writing in open office I'm trying to come up with a good solution that looks good and will save me time/work also in the future.

RoryOF, I need an image as the background not a colour and its for a book that will be sent to a professional printer in the end.

[Hagar Delest]

Ah, right, hadn't remember that part, sorry.

[Tarostar]

In the end acknak might have been right in that I was using the wrong tool. It encouraged me to look for programs that could be used to insert a background into an open office or pdf document and I found one that worked very well.

Using a a pdf tool from a company called A-PDF I could insert any background I wanted into the pdf on any number of pages using their watermarking software. The nice thing is that it can be sized how you want it, placed in the background and you can even insert different backgrounds on different pages. There are some quite good instructions on their website: http://www.a-pdf.com/faq/how-to-add-log ... t-file.htm.

I've tested it on the pdfs generated by open office writer and the background image looks good and I can see no problems. The free version http://www.a-pdf.com/watermark/ does however insert a watermark on the first page directing you to buy the full version. So if you want to avoid the watermark you'll need to buy it, but at least it is not too expensive at $27.

If you're paranoid about unknown software like me you can check out the review and download it from cnet:
http://download.cnet.com/A-PDF-Watermar ... 08200.html

I will mark this as solved since there seems to be no indication that the issue of background images being cropped by the margins will be resolved in open office any time soon.

Thanks for all your help here!

[Hagar Delest]

In fact, it has already been requested. You should subscribe and vote for it (up to 2 votes per issue): Issue 9370 - Off-margin page background.