"Export directly as PDF" for Hebrew vowels (niqqud)

[Seth]

Hebrew vowels (niqqud) appear properly in Writer; this was discussed in a number of old forum threads and the problem was solved.

However, Writer version 3 includes the wonderful function "Export directly as PDF." When this is used on Hebrew documents, Hebrew vowels are not positioned properly in the resulting PDF. In other words, the older problems discussed in earlier threads on niqqud, which were since solved for Writer, now seem to happen in the "Export directly as PDF" function.

Is this a bug or something that can be solved by the user?

[TheGurkha]

Actually, that PDF facility was in previous versions of OOo too.

One thing you could try is not using the export as a PDF function, but printing to a PDF printer driver instead. That might give you different results.

A free one is available here thast I have had good results with: PrimoPDF. They also sell versions of it, so make sure you download the right one! It installs as if it is a printer, so when you go to print (from any application) it appears in the list of printers.

[acknak]

Can you attach a simple test document? You can use the "Upload Attachment" link (below the "POST REPLY" message entry area). [Forum] How to attach a document here

OOo's support for RTL languages and fonts varies a lot between different systems; it would be good to know if this is a common, or a system-specific, problem.

[Seth]

Hi, I have uploaded an ODT document with Hebrew vowel points (niqqud) and an "Export directly as PDF" based upon that file. The ODT looks fine. But a careful glance will show the vowel points improperly shifted to the left in the PDF.

You asked about my system; I am working on XP.

Thanks for your attention to the problem.

[TheGurkha]

I created a pdf using the aforementioned PrimoPDF, and, if i'm looking at the correct text elements, I think it worked.

Check the PDF I have attached and if all is well with it then perhaps you can use that method as a workaround. If that is the case however, then it would appear that the PDF generation from OOo is doing something differently (as in, incorrectly) with these text elements.

new_keriat-shema-berakhot.pdf

(38.75 KiB) Downloaded 250 times

[Seth]

Thanks to "TheGurkha". The PDF you sent using PrimoPDF does a better job showing the vowel-points. So this is a good workaround for that issue.

However, it brings back a more basic issue in that it doesn't recognize the cantillation signs at all (see the paragraphs in the middle of the PDF with rectangles around them).

So the workaround can be usefully used for some texts but not for others.

"If that is the case however, then it would appear that the PDF generation from OOo is doing something differently (as in, incorrectly) with these text elements." -- Yes, it is the case! So thanks for a workaround that will be fine for some texts. Now we need to find out what OOo "is doing incorrectly with these text elements."

[acknak]

Here's what I see in the bottom 1/3 of your first page. I don't know Hebrew to tell what's right or wrong, but they all look substantially the same (to me) running on Fedora Linux. Some of the characters look different because I don't have the "David" font, so OOo has subsitited something else. I do have the "Ezra SIL SR" font.

Edit: PS:

Oops, looking a little more carefully, I can see what you mean: the points are slightly off in your PDF, compared to both Writer and the PDF I generated from your document. So it looks like OOo on your system has misplaced the points in the PDF, but it seems ok under Linux.

Click for a full-size image.

[Seth]

Yes, your PDF in Linux seems to place the vowel points correctly, unlike in XP. It may look like "slightly off" but it is disturbing to the reader, and in other parts of the document certain vowels are in impossible positions.

It is possible to figure out why this happens or what can be done to solve it?

[Robert Tucker]

The export to .pdf also seems OK with MS Windows 7 (as well as Fedora 10).

At the top of the screenshot is your .pdf and at the bottom the .pdf created with OOo 3.0.0 on Windows 7.

(You will probably need to click on the image to get the full-size version to see the niqqud properly.)

[Robert Tucker]

Or perhaps on closer inspection it goes wrong at this line:

ה' צְבָאוֹת שְׁמוֹ

which is still OK on a Linux generated .pdf

[acknak]

Well, I think the next step would be a bug report [Tutorial] Reporting bugs or suggestions, but there are several already posted that seem to relate to this problem:

Issue 54069: Hebrew vowel pointers displayed incorrectly
Issue 61485: Hebrew pointing not displayed right in XP
Issue 82950: hebrew niqqud vowel: hiriq below yod too far up

I suppose this is somewhat different since it involves PDF export, so it might not hurt to go ahead and file another report. As someone who knows the details of the language/typography you might come to a different conclusion.

If you do file a report, please leave a link to it here in case someone wants to check on the status.

As for a workaround, it seems like running OOo under Windows or Linux, at least for making PDFs, would be the simplest strategy.

[Robert Tucker]

Seems already reported at:

http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=86170

[acknak]

Good catch, Robert! Thanks for checking.

I don't know how I missed that one--I searched for 'niqqud or vowel', so it must have been in the list. I guess I just overlooked it.

[Seth]

OK, from everything that has been said this seems to be a problem that occurs with an XP platform.

Maybe it would be a good idea for someone who is registered to submit bug updates to post a link at the bug report to this forum discussion.