[Issue] Hidden text button in Writer toolbar

[-nw]

I'm finally switching from MS Word to OO Writer, and need to do a simple thing in Writer.

In Word, I added a custom toolbar button for hidden text. This "Hidden" button works the same as other text/font formatting buttons, like Bold, Italic, Underline, etc. You select the text you want to format, and click the button, making text bold, italic, hidden, etc. Simple.

But when I tried adding a hidden-text custom toolbar button in Writer, I can't find the "Hidden" command.

I followed this path, similar to Word's:
1 Tools menu--Customize--Toolbars--Add
2 In the Add Commands dialog box, in Category list, select Format
3 But: In the Commands list that appears for Format, there's no Hidden

The commands list shows Group, Half-width, Highlight Fill; no Hidden. Other text-formatting commands appear in the list, including Bold, Italic, Strikethrough, Underline, tons of others. Where's Hidden?

So instead of a toolbar button, I tried to create a keyboard shortcut. Following this path:
1 Tools menu--Customize--Keyboard
2 On the Keyboard tab, in the Functions area [lower half], in the Category list, click Format
3 But in the Function list for Format, there's no Hidden.

Is the only way to make selected text hidden this path?:
Select text, click Format menu--Character--Font Effects--click Hidden?

This seems very odd--dozens of formatting commands in the Commands lists for Format, but not Hidden. Hidden text is not an obscure command--the "Hidden" check box is right there in the Font Effects dialog box.

So why isn't Hidden in the Commans lists? Is this a bug?

Thanks for help!
-nw

[RoryOF]

Help / Hidden Paragraphs

I am not certain, but I think the Hide mechanism may differ greatly from that in MS Word.

[-nw]

Update--for other professionals and home users who need hidden text:

See:
http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=35980
http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=111233

For writers, editors, localizers, translators, etc, who use MS Word's hidden-text feature extensively, this makes OO-Writer unusable for us. This is a major surprise to me, that after finally trying to switch from MS Word to OO-Writer, I can't!

[acknak]

Sorry, but I'm afraid I don't see what you're getting at.

The first of those issues says that hidden text, specifically like that in MS Word, was added to OOo Writer in version 2--almost five years ago.

The second issue only says that there is no easy way to add a toolbar button to hide text--it doesn't mean that it can't be done, it just can't be done the way you expect.

OOo Writer has several ways to hide text, and they can be accessed as easily as you need them to be.

What is it you want to do, exactly?

[Hagar Delest]

What is it you want to do, exactly?

Add the command in the customization list to allow users to add a button in toolbar?
That's what I've understood (but I haven't read in detail, it's quite a bit long to ask for such a simple question).

[-nw]

acknak:
"What is it you want to do, exactly?"

Sorry if I wasn't clear when I wrote:
"In Word, I added a custom toolbar button for hidden text. This "Hidden" button works the same as other text/font formatting buttons, like Bold, Italic, Underline, etc. You select the text you want to format, and click the button, making text bold, italic, hidden, etc. Simple."

What I want to do exactly:
Select text and click a button that formats the text as hidden.

Hope that's clearer.

Hagar de l'Est:
"...(but I haven't read in detail, it's quite a bit long to ask for such a simple question)."

Agreed--it's simple, but I wanted to provide the UI path to the problem. That's all.

acknak:
"OOo Writer has several ways to hide text, and they can be accessed as easily as you need them to be."

So, I guess that leads to the question: What are they? The easy way I need it to be is:
Click a button that formats selected text as hidden.

Thanks!

[Hagar Delest]

You should create a character style instead of using the direct formatting of the buttons. Then you can use a shortcut to apply it (Tools>Customize>Keyboard).

[acknak]

Here's a sample document with a custom character style defined that adds the "font effect" "hidden" and a yellow background, just for fun.

You can see the hidden text (or not) by clicking on the "view nonprinting characters" icon on the standard toolbar (the ¶ icon).

You would normally use the Styles and Formatting window (F11) to apply the style, but you can assign a keystroke to apply it, or record it as a macro and assign that to a toolbar button.

I'm guessing that Word probably handles this specially, so you can just toggle the "hidden" property without thinking too much, where OOo treats it more generally and it may interact with other formatting in ways that it doesn't in Word. Depending on your exact use for it in the document, a different approach might be better.

[-nw]

Hagar de l'Est:
"You should create a character style instead of using the direct formatting of the buttons. Then you can use a shortcut to apply it (Tools>Customize>Keyboard)."

Thanks, Hagar--I managed to create a "Hidden" style using Format>Styles and Formatting; but I can't seem to find any procedures in Help that explain what to do next. This really isn't intuitive in the UI. How do I apply a keyboard shortcut to this style? I can't find my custom "Hidden" style using the customize keyboard path.

acknak:
"You would normally use the Styles and Formatting window (F11) to apply the style, but you can assign a keystroke to apply it, or record it as a macro and assign that to a toolbar button."

acknak, thanks for the demo doc. Unfortunately, the Show/Hide button is dimmed for your doc, so I can't toggle it. Can you tell me how I'd learn the procedure for assigning a keyboard shortcut or function key to apply "Hidden" style to selected text?

I've checked in Help; if there's a procedure, I didn't find it.

I tried to record a macro: I selected text, clicked Format>Character>Hidden>OK, then clicked Stop Recording. Now what? I saw no way to name the macro. Please tell me if it's in the UI and I'm not seeing it.

Maybe a simple procedure would help me?

Thanks again!

[floris v]

I remember working with Word and can confirm how easily hidden formatting could be applied, and how useful that could be. For instance to hide the html-like formatting code that editors used in the past. Hidden text isn't included in the word count in Word, that may give another clue about its uses. Even if you use a character style for it in OOo, it's not nearly as easy to use as in Word. For one thing, you can't toggle a character style on and off.

[Hagar Delest]

See here perhaps: [Solved] Applying shortcuts to styles.

[floris v]

I know how that works. It's time I write a tutorial for it for the Dutch forum. It's also time however that somebody tells the developers that as more people start using OOo, the time is past that the developers can assume that their users are nerds who love to spend a night on figuring out how something that's normally easy to do works here. It's the same as with Linux, that used to be something for technically minded people who knew what they were doing, but the truth is that most people aren't like that.

[Hagar Delest]

I know how that works.

I was answering OP (in case you thought I was answering your post)!

[-nw]

See here perhaps: [Solved] Applying shortcuts to styles.

I just tried that--it's the same UI path that I referred to above in my original post.
"Tools > Customize > Keyboard>Functions > Category > Styles -- pick a style, assign a shortcut."

Once again, in Styles>Character, the "Hidden" style that I created per above instructions is not in the list.

As I re-read this thread, I get the impression that both Hagar de l'Est and acknak are being deliberately obtuse. Why don't you provide a simple procedure for this instead of vague gestures toward the possibility of just maybe being able to do it?

In particular, acknak's: "Sorry, but I'm afraid I don't see what you're getting at." Is he unable to follow the exact UI path I give in the post?

And "OOo Writer has several ways to hide text, and they can be accessed as easily as you need them to be."

You're joking, correct?

[floris v]

When you are down to the Styles, you can select from character styles, paragraph styles, page styles, etc. You need to search in character styles.
First time I tried to do something like this, it was a nightmare. So much for how easy it all is.

Hagar is one of the most helpful people I've met on the Net. Acknak is pretty good as well. But in this case they're handicapped by not having experienced the ease of working with the hidden text option in Word.

[Hagar Delest]

I just tried that--it's the same UI path that I referred to above in my original post.
"Tools > Customize > Keyboard>Functions > Category > Styles -- pick a style, assign a shortcut."

Reread your original post and you'll see that you're not talking about that menu. You're talking about the >Format category, which is different from the styles list.

Once again, in Styles>Character, the "Hidden" style that I created per above instructions is not in the list.

As I re-read this thread, I get the impression that both Hagar de l'Est and acknak are being deliberately obtuse. Why don't you provide a simple procedure for this instead of vague gestures toward the possibility of just maybe being able to do it?

Well, once you're in this menu, it's rather obvious that you've to click the "+" to expand the tree and select the style needed.

[-nw]

When you are down to the Styles, you can select from character styles, paragraph styles, page styles, etc. You need to search in character styles.

As I wrote in my above post:
"Once again, in Styles>Character, the "Hidden" style that I created per above instructions is not in the list."

Folks, this is becoming comical.

I've used computers since 1980--Unix, DOS, Windows, Mac, soon Ubuntu. While no expert, I'm capable. And I'm philosophically aligned with the Open Source movement, which is why I'm trying to escape M$ by building a work PC to run Ubuntu, Mozilla Firefox, and up to now, Open Office.

But re-reading this thread makes me wonder and worry: Does use of Open Office cause a mental viral infection that impairs the user's reading comprehension?

[Hagar Delest]

As I wrote in my above post:
"Once again, in Styles>Character, the "Hidden" style that I created per above instructions is not in the list."

Agreed but it is not what you've said in your original post (i.e. the first post of this topic).

So don't say in your above post that you had tried that in your original post!

I just tried by creating a new character style and it is available right away in the styles list once you click the "+" sign.

[floris v]

I started using computers a few years later, my reading comprehensions skills are fine, thank you, and I recently added a keyboard shortcut to a character style defined by myself. To be sure, I created a new character style, and added a keyboard shortcut to it. Are you sure that your reading skills are okay?

[-nw]

Are you sure that your reading skills are okay?

Actually, no. I'm a dope. Brain cells burning out, mental acuity fading. So can you help me?

Can you write a step-by-step procedure---as in 1) Do this. 2) Now do this. 3) Next do this---for a person who needs to use hidden text in OO-Writer in the simplest way? Y'know, like acknak says: "OOo Writer has several ways to hide text, and they can be accessed as easily as you need them to be." Well, I need the easiest way.

Have you seen the standard procedure format in Word Help and other programs? They're directed at the end user who simply wants to do a job. Do it like that. A procedure. Each step must refer to an object--a label--in the UI.

As in,
To easily format text as hidden:
1 Select the text you want to format as hidden.
2 Click the Format menu, and then click Character.
3 In the Character dialog box, click the Font Effects tab.
4 Select the Hidden check box.
4 Click OK.
5 Be happy that it's so easy. Every time you want to format text as hidden--hundreds of times in the course of a few days--each time it takes only five mouse clicks.

As it says on the Usability Testing page of the OO Wiki:
"The user should be able to do what they need to do effectively, efficiently and satisfactorily."

By the way, for others following this comedy, the bug I created about this defect has been expanded--the problem is worse than I realized:

--------Additional comments from mru Thu Apr 29 10:24:03 +0000 2010 -------
This does not only refer to "hidden text" but also to "Blinking" font effect.
Additionally I was not able to find "Small caps", "Capitals" and so on in the
customize options.
http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=111233

[floris v]

I meant your eyesight, not your understanding.

Let's start with the character style business. When you have named and defined the new character style and then close and reopen the Stylist (F11) and select the character styles list, does it show up there? If not, something is wrong. You either cancelled the making of the new style, so that it wasn't added, or something is wrong with your implementation of OOo.

I added some comments to the new issue about this, by the way, must run now. Cheers.

[Daiwe01]

Actually, no. I'm a dope. Brain cells burning out, mental acuity fading. So can you help me?

Can you write a step-by-step procedure---as in 1) Do this. 2) . . .

Your posts seem to be becoming rather sanctimonious.
You say that you have managed to successfully follow the previous directions to create and save a new character style. What name did you assign to this style?

• STEP ONE Forget Format dialog
• STEP TWO Use Styles dialog