Setting (default) language for document

stolsvik · Post by **stolsvik** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:33 pm

Where do I suggest things?

I just have to state that I find the language/locale handling of OpenOffice documents EXCEPTIONALLY FRUSTRATING. How the FLYING FSCK are one supposed to set the language for a particular document? And the default for this default?

For you English localers, I have to point out one IDIOTICALLY ANNOYING feature: The 'i' to 'I' auto-correct feature. In Norwegian, and at least all Scandinavian languages, we use a free-standing 'i' all the time (it means "in"). When this is auto-corrected to that devilishly fubarred 'I' (capital 'i'), it frustrates the daylights out of us.

I cannot even start to count how many times I've seen Norwegian documents with capital 'i's all over the place, totally pointing out in a very sad way how difficult it is for normal human beings to even use something as simple as a damn text-editing program.

This stuff just got to stop - I need somewhere absurdly simple place to set "language for this document: Norwegian". It is nice that sections of a document can be set to be another language - as one easily can envision that an excerpt in English or Spanish is embedded in a Norwegian document, and it would be very nice to be able to use the spell checker there too. But for fsck's sake: The default language of a document, and the default for this default, must be SIMPLE TO SET. God damn.

.. or, where have I not been looking, please?

Post by **Robert Tucker** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:37 pm

Tools>Options>Language Settings>Languages

stolsvik · Post by **stolsvik** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:42 pm

Been there, doesn't cut it.

In calc, I just coulnd't fix it ever, trying about a dozen different things. The auto-correct thing still "corrected" my i's..

Post by **Robert Tucker** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:58 pm

AutoCorrect is turned on by default. To turn it off, uncheck Format > AutoFormat > While Typing.

* To stop Writer from replacing a specific spelling, use Tools > AutoCorrect > Replace, highlight the word pair and click Delete.

http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wik ... utoCorrect

If your default language is not changing, one might perhaps suspect the installation. What is the language at: Format>Character>Font?

stolsvik · Post by **stolsvik** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:03 pm

Just to be clear: For Norwegian, there obviously aren't an auto-correct rule for i -> I. Thus, I don't want to turn off auto-correct, but to change the darn locale for my entire document to Norwegian (not just the currently written characters - ALSO for the newly written characters).

stolsvik · Post by **stolsvik** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:05 pm

Robert Tucker wrote:What is the language at: Format>Character>Font?

English (USA).

How in the world can this be a font-specific feature?! I seriously consider the language of some section to be COMPLETELY and UTTERLY orthogonal to its font!!!!

stolsvik · Post by **stolsvik** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:12 pm

To be clear, it seems like I've actually managed to do this "transition" on Writer: For a new document, the Format->Character->Font shows "Norwegian, Bokmål" there, the desired.

(However, I remember using literally HOURS to get this to work. To do the super-lame "I'm a trained professional", I just got to say: I am, MS, even, with about 10 years of practice. I find it completely absurd that such a BASAL and really MAJOR part of writing some document cannot be fathomed by me in 2 seconds max. Why isn't the default language a part of "Properties" for the document?! Again: Sections of a document could be switched to some other language (Orthogonal to the font settings for that paragraph - that is utterly obvious IMO), but the default for the document should be some major property.)

I still haven't managed to change the language/locale of my currently opened Calc document to Norwegian. At all.

Where can I submit this as a request/bug/feature request/whining that will be taken into serious consideration by actual developers??

Post by **Robert Tucker** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:19 pm

When you change the default language at Tools>Options>Language Settings>Languages it should also change at Format>Character>Font.

The Calc equivalent of Writer's Format>Character>Font is Format>Cells...>Font

FWIW the AutoCorrect function regarding changing i to I and other misspellings is removed from the Fedora version of OpenOffice, presumably considered unnecessary or unhelpful when there is the spellchecker.

To change the language in different sections of the text you need to set up different paragraph styles.

Have you checked out this tutorial:

http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/ ... 74&t=16512

stolsvik · Post by **stolsvik** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:34 pm

Robert Tucker wrote:To change the language in different sections of the text you need to set up different paragraph styles.

That is seriously fucked up, IMHO. Really absurdly illogical and not-thought-through-at-all-ever.

IMHO, it clearly shows the CLASSIC problem of a developer group consisting mostly of English-speaking folks that never have to consider the problem of having to write in another language, not to mention that most other countries need to be fluent in at least two languages, and often end up in a situation where it would be logical to have a document with more than one language. Just think about something as banal as quoting some English lyrics in a Norwegian text about pop music?

Again, where do I report this glaring bug?

However, Robert, I want to thank you for your generous help! This is probably not your fault!!

Robert Tucker wrote:The Calc equivalent of Writer's Format>Character>Font is Format>Cells...>Font

Thanks a bunch!! This worked. I ctrl-a'ed the entire document, went into Format->Cells->Font and set the language to Norwegian (it "wasn't set" for some reason - blank selection). No more i->I auto correct! Compared to how I remember the Writer situation, it even worked when I inserted a new row; For Writer's part, I could get the current written text to Norwegian, but by just starting to write in the middle of a section made that letter into "an English letter".

Post by **Robert Tucker** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:44 pm

stolsvik wrote: Again, where do I report this glaring bug?

To report bugs you need to go to:

http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/query.cgi

and create an account.

stolsvik wrote:This is probably not your fault!!

That's certainly true!

Have you thought of installing the Norwegian localization of OpenOffice. You can download it from:

http://download.openoffice.org/other.html#en-US

You would need to uninstall the English version first to install it.

You could just install the Norwegian language pack, but since there seems to be problems with your installation, it might be as well to try a fresh install anyway (particularly before submitting a fault).

Post by **Robert Tucker** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:59 pm

The default language should change at: Tools>Options>Language Settings>Languages. If it does not, then I suspect some fault with the installation.

The way styles work on OpenOffice is thought by many to be superior to that on MS Word. Asking for its destruction may equate to asking for the removal of one of the jewels in the OpenOffice crown!

stolsvik · Post by **stolsvik** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:00 pm

Robert Tucker wrote:You could just install the Norwegian language pack, but since there seems to be problems with your installation, it might be as well to try a fresh install anyway (particularly before submitting a fault).

If I've understood things correctly (the language sits "in the font style"), this is a "bug" with the OpenOffice logic, not a fault with my installation or whatever else.

I am willing to bet actual money with everyone that dare on the following: Take 10 persons that haven't used OpenOffice for more than a week. Ask him/her to a) change the document language for the currently open document (and make this "stick" for new entered text), AND b) change a certain section's language (and make this stick for new entered text within that section), AND c) change the default language for new documents. I bet that 2 or less of them would be able to do this within a four hour constraint.

If such a result wouldn't be considered a total fuck up of a feature, I cannot fathom what would.

If anyone dare reply that "this is an advanced feature" or some bullshit along those lines, then I beg to differ, and ask those to read my rant about "This shows the CLASSIC problem" some posts above. ANYONE that aren't English, or that needs to write a document in their second language, will need these functions. This is not ADVANCED FUNCTIONALITY in any regard whatsoever: It is, on the contrary, more basic than the font selections, damn it!!!!!

stolsvik · Post by **stolsvik** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:05 pm

Robert Tucker wrote:The default language should change at: Tools>Options>Language Settings>Languages. If it does not, then I suspect some fault with the installation.

The way styles work on OpenOffice is thought by many to be superior to that on Windows Word. Asking for its destruction may equate to asking for the removal of one of the jewels in the OpenOffice crown!

As mentioned in a post above (or actually several posts, if you read between the lines: E.g. the quoting of English lyrics in a Norwegian text), it is very nice that one can change some section's language in a document.

HOWEVER, this is blatantly obviously ORTHOGONAL to the font settings / font styles. Or do you seriously mean that it is LOGICAL that I need to define "Heading 1 - Norwegian" and "Default - Norwegian" etc etc etc etc etc? A complete replication of the Styles hierarchy, to enable the mix of Norwegian and English in a document? Like, SERIOUSLY?

Why isn't this e.g. instead one more dropdown in the Formatting Toolbar? Orthogonal to the Style and Font settings?!

Probable answer: Because the majority of OO developers have English as their native (and sole) language, and have serious problems understanding why anyone chooses to write in those other stupid languages - and have even more problems understanding why anyone would need, outside of EXTREMELY EXOTIC situations, to mix languages in one document.

Post by **Robert Tucker** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:20 pm

stolsvik wrote: HOWEVER, this is blatantly obviously ORTHOGONAL to the font settings / font styles. Or do you seriously mean that it is LOGICAL that I need to define "Heading 1 - Norwegian" and "Default - Norwegian" etc etc etc etc etc? A complete replication of the Styles hierarchy, to enable the mix of Norwegian and English in a document? Like, SERIOUSLY?

It's a while since I used MS Word and then really only using English, so it is difficult for me to comment on the difference.

stolsvik wrote:... the majority of OO developers have English as their native (and sole) language, and have serious problems understanding why anyone chooses to write in those other stupid languages - and have even more problems understanding why anyone would need, outside of EXTREMELY EXOTIC situations, to mix languages in one document.

This has been stated in some form or another before. I think I'm right in saying though, that while OpenOffice can input Chinese vertically top-to-bottom right-to-left, MS Word cannot.

ccornell · Post by **ccornell** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:30 pm

stolsvik wrote:Because the majority of OO developers have English as their native (and sole) language, and have serious problems understanding why anyone chooses to write in those other stupid languages - and have even more problems understanding why anyone would need, outside of EXTREMELY EXOTIC situations, to mix languages in one document.

Actually, the majority of the developers of OpenOffice.org are German. It started out its life as a product of a German company called Star Division... was bought out by Sun and open sourced, and the vast majority of the core developers are still in Germany - not discounting of course the developers who contribute worldwide, but their numbers are significantly smaller than the contributors from Germany.... so it's likely more accurate to state that the majority of OOo developers do NOT have English as their native (and sole) language.

stolsvik · Post by **stolsvik** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 8:02 pm

ccornell wrote:
stolsvik wrote:Because the majority of OO developers have English as their native (and sole) language, and have serious problems understanding why anyone chooses to write in those other stupid languages - and have even more problems understanding why anyone would need, outside of EXTREMELY EXOTIC situations, to mix languages in one document.
Actually, the majority of the developers of OpenOffice.org are German. It started out its life as a product of a German company called Star Division... was bought out by Sun and open sourced, and the vast majority of the core developers are still in Germany - not discounting of course the developers who contribute worldwide, but their numbers are significantly smaller than the contributors from Germany.... so it's likely more accurate to state that the majority of OOo developers do NOT have English as their native (and sole) language.

Okay, that was actually a bit embarrassing, I must admit.

(I knew about the buy from Sun, but I believed OO was an American product when it was bought too).

Although Germans aren't yet the the most multilingual European people, many of them are certainly used to the situation of having to know and express oneself in multiple languages - this obviously goes for the developers of such an open source product. My point (and bet) still stands, though. It would thus simply seem to be a case of breach of usability-logic which was decided a good while ago, and which haven't been rooted out yet.

stolsvik · Post by **stolsvik** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 8:35 pm

stolsvik · Post by **stolsvik** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:04 pm

Robert Tucker wrote:
stolsvik wrote: HOWEVER, this is blatantly obviously ORTHOGONAL to the font settings / font styles. Or do you seriously mean that it is LOGICAL that I need to define "Heading 1 - Norwegian" and "Default - Norwegian" etc etc etc etc etc? A complete replication of the Styles hierarchy, to enable the mix of Norwegian and English in a document? Like, SERIOUSLY?
It's a while since I used MS Word and then really only using English, so it is difficult for me to comment on the difference.

I'm not comparing to MS Word. I'm simply stating that I find "Style: Heading 1 - Arial 20 pt" to be COMPLETELY ORTHOGONAL to "Language: Norwegian", that the latter property should thus not be bundled into the former, and that I find this utterly obvious.

Post by **Hagar Delest** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:42 pm

Have you had a look at that topic: [Tutorial] Spell check and Language configuration?

Setting (default) language for document

Setting (default) language for document

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