Using base on idisk - can't edit database

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carlvz
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Using base on idisk - can't edit database

Post by carlvz »

I recently created my first database using Base (OpenOffice v.3 for Mac). I copies the database from my desktop to my idisk (documents folder). Now, when I open the file that's on the idisk, I can't edit it. I can't add records, make changes to tables, create new forms, nothing.

I thought it might have something to do with "registering" and edited the path that the database had, in the preference, but that made no difference. I delected the registration info for all the other databases that were listed there too. I tried opening it by double clicking on the file, and by selecting it from the "recent" list in the file menu. No luck. I checked the properties of the data file and it is set to read and write.

Does anyone know: Is there some setting that makes a database read-only or non-editable? Or is there something about moving the file that would cause a problem? Or is this just an idisk issue?

I want the file there so that both I and my work-mate can access and edit the database.

Thanks.
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kabing
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Re: Using base on idisk - can't edit database

Post by kabing »

Did you create the database using the built-in HSQLDB engine? If so, you should know that the built-in engine is designed for single-user use only. If you want multiple people to access it, you should use another database engine (e.g. MySQL) and use Base as a front end.

It may have to do with the file being on the iDisk. NeoOffice (an independent Mac port/fork of OpenOffice.org) has had periodic problems with accessing files on iDisk. Each time they crop up, the developers have been able to release a patch to fix it, but I've had it happen more than once.

For non-Mac users, iDisk is essentially space on one of Apple's servers where MobileMe subscribers can store files and host websites. On a mac, the iDisk can be accessed as if it were a network or local volume.

kabing
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carlvz
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Re: Using base on idisk - can't edit database

Post by carlvz »

Thanks Kabing,

I created my database in Base directly. I opened base, chose to create a new database, and created about 5 new tables by pasting data that I had been keeping in a spreadsheet, into the new tables. So, I think the answer is that I did create it using the built-in HSQLDB engine. The technical language is beyond me.

I do want to be able to access it from two different computers that are both running Base, but it's fine if we can't access it at the same time. I've noticed that if you've opened a file that you keep on the idisk with one computer, it seems to not allow you to open it (or opens it read-only) on another one at the same time. So I wanted to place the data file there and see what happens.

I also tried to make an alias and place it on my desktop and access it through the alias. Same result - not editable.

I haven't used NeoOffice, just the new version of OpenOffice. Would you recommend that I move to that app?

Thanks, Carl
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kabing
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Re: Using base on idisk - can't edit database

Post by kabing »

carlvz wrote: I haven't used NeoOffice, just the new version of OpenOffice. Would you recommend that I move to that app?
That's a dangerous question to ask me. :D I'm a very active volunteer on the NeoOffice forums and wiki (under a different user name), so I am partial to NeoOffice.

NeoOffice is currently at version 2.2.5, based on OpenOffice.org 2.2.1, so shifting to NeoOffice means losing all improvements in features or bugs in OpenOffice.org since then. The NeoOffice developers are working on a NeoOffice release based on OpenOffice.org 3.0. It will be available through the Early Access Program (where you must make a minimum $25 donation to NeoOffice in order to download) January 15 and will be available to download for free beginning March 31, 2009. [Currently NeoOffice 2.2.5 can be downloaded for free]

NeoOffice does include some extras OpenOffice.org does not, and the porting code has been around longer and thus has been tested more. Because it's Mac only and has a smaller user base, the developers are able to be more responsive to bug reports.

I just checked, and I am able to access a Base file on my iDisk from NeoOffice 2.2.5. I can edit data in tables and I was able to make a new form. I only did a very cursory check, so I can't promise everything will work properly.

kabing
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carlvz
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Re: Using base on idisk - can't edit database

Post by carlvz »

Thanks for the help. I just drug my file from the idisk to my desktop and it works fine. It's a pretty simple database; I'm sure it will run fine in v. 2. I'll download, give it a shot, and report the bug to the openoffice folks.
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carlvz
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Re: Using base on idisk - can't edit database

Post by carlvz »

Well, we're probably getting far afield here, but I did try, and, after moving the tables & data (very easy), saved the file, closed neo, reopened, and couldn't use the database file that was on the idisk, at all. Base opened, and when I selected "Table" to see my list of tables, got the following message/window:

The connectio nto the datasource "Filename" could not be established.

General error: org.hsqidb.lib.FilesystemRuntimeException:java.io.IOException

ok

-----------------------
Thanks for the help. I'm beginning to wonder if this is just something that can't be done with the idisk. It seems that, while I used to do a lot with it, it just can't handle this kind of stuff.
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kabing
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Re: Using base on idisk - can't edit database

Post by kabing »

I'm thinking you are right that it's just not likely to work when stored on the iDisk. If you want to pursue the error message you get in Neo, you should probably post a question in the trinity forums.

One other thing you could try is to turn on iDisk syncing which creates a local copy of your iDisk. It might be possible to access the file on the local iDisk copy. Of course if you do this on more than one machine, the possibilities for disaster are increased. If you want to give it a go, backup your odb file to a true local disk on each machine on a very regular basis. (like everytime you add/edit data).

kabing
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wurzel
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Re: Using base on idisk - can't edit database

Post by wurzel »

kabing wrote:I'm thinking you are right that it's just not likely to work when stored on the iDisk.

kabing
Hi Kabing,
I'm pretty certain that remote saving/read/write operations on iDisk with Base files wasn't tested when 3.0 was in development (although I'm willing to be proven wrong ;-) ). Similar issues were discovered with webdav access and opening/writing to webdav folders via the Mac OS system folder dialogs for plain old regular ODF documents. Some kind of workaround was available if the user switched off the native dialogs in the Tools - Options menu of OpenOffice.org. Another developer proposed a patch for integration but it was refused (for reasons I don't really understand, perhaps it was too hacky).

How does iDisk work (because I don't have an account and don't want/need one), in the sense, what kind of protocol is used to enable the storage transaction ? Is it AFS ? NFS ? Webdav ?

Alex
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kabing
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Re: Using base on idisk - can't edit database

Post by kabing »

Alex,

I have no idea, as I don't really understand the underlying protocols. But I'll describe what I know--some of which you may know already, but may prove helpful to others reading this thread in the future. I use Tiger (10.4.11), so some specifics may be slightly different in Leopard (10.5)

iDisk is one aspect of Apple's MobileMe service, providing on-line storage for documents, photos, etc.
It also provides web-hosting services.
On a Mac, it can be accessed from the iDisk item on the sidebar of any Finder Window
or by choosing Go>iDisk from the top menus
you can access your own iDisk or someone elses--if you know their username and password.
(files in the Public folder, however, do not require this; they can be accessed by the right url as can anything in the Sites or Web folders. Items there can be downloaded or viewed, but I don't think they can be edited without username and password.)
Once accessed, it is treated like any other volume, local or otherwise.
It is possible to have a local copy of your iDisk, stored on your hard drive, which then syncs with the "real" iDisk. I stopped doing that long ago due to both hard drive space limitation and some problems with iWeb that seemed to be solved by turning off this local copy.

It is also possible to access the iDisk from a PC running Windows. I don't know about access with Linux machines.
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Re: Using base on idisk - can't edit database

Post by wurzel »

OK, I've since found out that iDisk uses the WebDav protocol, which would explain why you can't open and work on remote files properly using the native Mac OSX file open dialogs and double-click actions from within OOo. The work-around that has been proposed, while waiting for a correction (if ever one is accepted into the trunk source code) is to use the OpenOffice.org dialogs instead and load the remote file stored on the remotely mounted file system from within that. However, this supposes that you know where to look (it is in /Volumes) because the tree view of the local harddisk as presented by OOo follows the Unix convention and Apple has put all other mounted file systems in the /Volumes folder (which is hidden by default on the Apple desktop).

I can save and edit existing Writer or Calc files stored on my own webdav server via this mechanism, or by entering the address of the file directly in the file open dialog (rather longwinded, time consuming and you need a good memory to remember the whole path to the file), but it works.

However, if you try and do this with a Base file, an IO error occurs. The Base document container appears on screen, but all of the left hand action icons (Tables, Forms, Query, etc) are greyed out. If you click on any of these icons, you get a java IO error message. So there must be something particular about Base files that prevents them from being read from via webdav (I suspect that this has to do with the way the data structures are loaded into the IO stream), or perhaps it is a limitation of the way OOo for Mac OSX accesses webdav stored files. Another hypothesis is perhaps again that the encapsulated HSQLDB database doesn't support being run from a webdav storage. I haven't yet tried this with any other database backend (mysql, dbf, etc) to see if the problem is generalised with any type of db document or whether it is HSQLDB specific.

Alex
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